Unlock Your Soul Magic with Nikhi Joshi
From healthcare strategy consultant to soul guide and healer, join me as I journey onto my soul path, find my voice and become even more of my authentic self. Learn how I blend the practical with the mystical as an empath, mom, a wife and a first generation Indian immigrant in the US who stumbled upon her psychic and healing gifts in the most unexpected way.
Unlock Your Soul Magic with Nikhi Joshi
The Genius of Empathy: An Interview with Dr. Judith Orloff
Today, I welcome Dr. Judith Orloff, board-certified psychiatrist, empath, intuitive healer and New York Times best-selling author to discuss her latest book, 'The Genius of Empathy.' Dr. Orloff shares how empathy is a healing energy and provides practical strategies for empaths to navigate the world. We explore the importance of self-empathy, setting boundaries, recognizing narcissistic personalities, and the vision for empathic leadership in various fields. The episode concludes with a powerful prayer for the world, embodying the spirit of unity, empathy and healing.
This episode includes a practical 1-minute somatic practice to tap into and expand your heart energy.
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May this episode be a beautiful activation of your empathic superpowers as well as inner boundaries to lovingly hold this energy for yourself and others.
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Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Unlock your Soul Magic with Nikki Joshi. I'm here to take you on a journey of deepening your connection to your soul and all parts of you, as I share my personal journey of moving from a strategy consultant to soul guide and healer and with that, I'm beyond thrilled and excited to bring to you a very special guest today, someone who has impacted me on my healing journey, dr Judith Orloff. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being with us all today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Nikki. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you. You've published so much, you've shared so much with the world and really made empathy and being an empath such a normal thing. I know I had that experience when I came across your work and could self-identify with the term empath using the quiz that you had on your website and I was like, oh yeah, this is me. I never acknowledged this part of myself. So thank you for your work. And today we're going to share more about Judith's latest book, the Genius of Empathy. So I trust it will be a very expansive conversation for all of you listening and tuning in. I want to make sure you all are familiar with Dr Orloff's work, so I want to read out a bit about her background in case you're new to her world, and after that I'd love for you to spend some time setting intentions, think about questions you might have on all things empathy-related, because we're really going to break that down based on all of Dr Orloff's work here. Dr Judith Orloff is revolutionizing psychiatry by advocating for the integration of intuitive and empathic intelligence in healthcare. She believes that these innate qualities, often overlooked in conventional medicine, are crucial for healing and preventing illness. A New York Times bestselling author, dr Olof is also a faculty member at UCLA's Psychiatric Clinical Program. With a family lineage of 25 physicians, including both her parents, dr Olof specializes in treating empaths and highly sensitive individuals through her Los Angeles-based practice, as well as international online consultations. She also offers empathy training programs to leading organizations such as Google, tedx, the Women's Mental Health Consortium and more.
Speaker 1:Dr Arloff's influential work has been featured in major media outlets such as the New York Times, o Magazine, forbes, newsweek, usa Today and Scientific American, as well as the Today Show, the Dr Oz Show, cnn and NPR, often called the godmother of the empath movement. Dr Arloff's latest book, which we will be talking about today, the Genius of Empathy, with a foreword by the Dalai Lama, provides actionable skills to harness empathy as a superpower in everyday life. Her previous works, including the Empath Survival Guide and Emotional Freedom, have become essential resources for sensitive individuals striving to navigate a high-stimulus world without succumbing to compassion fatigue. All the amazing things that you've done. Thank you for sharing it all, and with that, I'd love to turn the floor over to you, dr Arloff, and maybe starting with hearing your perspective on empathy as a healing energy. You use this term often in your book, this phrase, and it's something that we can all embrace or learn to embrace to a greater degree. Can you share more about what you mean by empathy as a healing energy, so that we can appreciate that more too?
Speaker 2:Yes, I wrote the genius of empathy on the premise that empathy is a healing energy.
Speaker 2:It's not usually the way that empathy is looked at, but from my standpoint, as an energy healer and also an intuitive, empathy is an energy that can start off the healing energies of the body.
Speaker 2:There was a study called the Mother Teresa effect where it showed that if you're walking along the street and you witness an act of empathy, if I were to draw your blood right then, if I were to draw your blood right, then your immunity would go up, your blood pressure would go down, the immune system would start working over time and you know all the good things that could happen can be triggered simply by witnessing an act of empathy.
Speaker 2:So imagine what it's like if you show yourself empathy right now. There's a chapter on self empathy where you can say I know you've had a hard day today and you've done the best you can, versus you're so stupid you're, so you know you're not able to handle these situations at all, so that you know the negative voices that come in, able to handle these situations at all, so that you know the negative voices that come in, so that one of the healing aspects of empathy is learning to shift out of the negative voices that most people have into a more heart-centered, loving and healing place and literally healing the body. So that's how I'm presenting empathy in the book as a healer of the body, the soul, the emotions, everything, relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, the Mother Teresa effect. I think it's such a helpful way to think about how that can impact us when we see it. And I really want to speak to the empaths in our audience, where we often can almost misconstrue empathy as, oh, I need to give and I need to help, because that makes me feel good and almost when you speak to this, this codependent giving way, and how can we start from within to connect to our heart, to connect to empathy and the self-empathy? I love that you start the book in that way, dedicated chapters just on how to shift that inner dialogue within us, because I do believe that's the space from which we can help others, empathize with others and heal the world, as you talk about, too, others empathize with others and heal the world, as you talk about too.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, you know, a quick way to shift into the healing energy of empathy is simply put your hand over your heart and to focus on something loving and caring or beautiful Could be a dolphin, it could be a sunset, it could be a beautiful vision you've had somewhere in your life. But if you keep your mind lightly focused on that and you put your hand over your heart and focus on the love and you begin to open up the heart energy, which is the healing energy of the body, and you can say to yourself I have empathy for myself, I have empathy for the people in my family, I have empathy for people I disagree with, I have empathy for people I agree with, and begin to open up that heart energy which is the healing energy, and you might feel it as a warmth, a tingling, you might feel it barely as a growing energy or something different, but the more you put your hand over this area and the more you can say empathic statements to yourself, the more your heart energy will grow and that heart energy moves. It moves from the heart and it goes through the chest and it goes through the arms and it goes through the body and it goes out beyond the body to create a heart-centered environment. And so that's one way to open up the heart and begin to get the healing energy of empathy active, because the healing energy it's not a mental construct, it's feeling in the body. And as part of going through this book, you'll learn strategies how to activate this empathy force, healing force in the body.
Speaker 2:And this was just one way and this is a way I practice every day. I do this heart centering meditation every night. I meditate every night before I go to sleep. It's around 11 o'clock, everything's quiet and I just sit and I put my hand on my heart and that activates the empathic healing energy. So just know that it's a simple but powerful technique that you can use, and the more you regularly use it, the more you can heal with empathy.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that practice pretty much real time with us all. I was tapping in and feeling into it and I could really feel the energy build from my heart out outwards. I think I started with a dolphin and then I started to cradle a little kitten and it felt really lovely within. That's beautiful, yeah, and I think that's another thing. Thank you for sharing a practice, because in our podcast here we're all about, you know, connecting energetically and spiritually, connecting to our intuition and empathy. But how do we do this? In simple, practical ways, because life can be overwhelming when we are energetically sensitive. And how can we find this quick practice that our minds will not question and say we don't have time for this, we can do within a few minutes. So hearing how you do it is also very helpful.
Speaker 2:Thank you, yes, and just know that even that one practice, if you did it with us, I can feel in my own chest the heart energy has its own intelligence and it goes to the body and I like everyone, as part of learning about empathy, to train your body, you know, to listen to how you know these energies spread. So much of this is an energetic-based phenomenon. It's not just way up here, although what you say up here is important. It's about actually shifting the energy with empathy so that you can be in a healthier place, you can relate to people, as empathy requires relationships, and relating to people from that heart centered space, even if you don't agree with them. So it's my concept of empathy. It goes further than the usual concept, which is putting yourself in somebody else's shoes, which is important to do, but learning how to work with energy is a way of amplifying empathy. You know, million times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love, I'd love that. Yes, yes, so much yes to it all. I still want to spend a little more time on the self-empathy concept. And how do we do this when we're habituated to being hard on ourselves? Maybe we're going through something very difficult, or our body is not cooperating with us, or it's an area of shame that we've just gotten used to for decades. Even how do you start to open the door to feeling and receiving empathy? I know you shared one practice, but if there's more, because this is the thing I see so many people struggle with- yes.
Speaker 2:Well, you have to decide if you want to show yourself self-empathy because, um, you know, as a therapist, I've spoken with my therapist friends over the years and and you know about how easy, how much easier it is to have empathy for our patients than ourselves, or have empathy for other people. I could do it for them, but when it comes to yourself, it might be a bit harder, and that's to be expected you know, it's just how it works.
Speaker 2:you know the self is the hardest one to love, it's true and um, but that's okay. You know, if you in in your heart and if you, the way you talk to yourself, you know, as is everything, is the way I'm talking to myself about this topic, it's in a very loving way because I know I'm. You know this is an important topic for me in terms of how I treat myself, very important how you treat yourselves, to shift out of this pressured, negative mode. And you know I won't be a good person or I won't succeed unless I do ABCD. And you put yourself on this ladder, climbing a ladder. And the ladder, you know, is fine but it doesn't really go to where you're looking for. If you're looking for a heart centered empathy, it's something else. The ladder's okay, but it's not.
Speaker 2:You know, I had a dream years ago where climbing up a ladder in the dream and somebody was next to me and says you know that's not going to go anywhere. I can tell you that I'm all for. You know trying to get ahead in your career and you know accomplishing things and all that. I'm a big doer and mover. You know I am. I am. But this is a little different than that. This is about you know, as you go about all of your great plans for your life which I support you you have to do it from an empathic standpoint, otherwise it could become about self torture, that you don't feel good enough when you compare yourself to other people. Your progress is too slow. Why am I not getting inspiration? What's wrong with me?
Speaker 2:You know you could go that way or you can go the empathic way is you know I'm going to go one step at a time. I'm going to be grateful for every little thing, and that's the energy I want to build around this dream of mine. I do not want to use it as an excuse to beat myself up, because sometimes what I've seen with my patients and I work I'm in Los Angeles, so I work sometimes with people in Hollywood you know they beat themselves up, they look like they have everything to everybody else. You know, and you know just brutal. And so self-empathy is learning to kindly recognize that. Take a breath, tell yourself you're not going to go there and you're going to start out again, empathizing with yourself and this great task you've taken on, and give yourself a break. And so the self-dialogue is important.
Speaker 2:Connecting to the heart and having that energy build is important. You know, when you're showing yourself self-empathy, you know you, you know you are, you came into this world just yourself, and you met all these people and you're doing all these things and growing. But when you leave this world you're just going to have yourself right and and what, which is not. It's just how it goes. You know and you. But what you develop here, you know in terms of what I'm talking about the heart energy, having empathy for yourselves and other people. That develops the heart. And so that heart development, that spiritual development, goes with you wherever you go. So never lose it and it's the one worthwhile thing that we can do here, that we can take with us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes. Yeah, I want to underscore the point you made around deciding that decision is so powerful and I know where I made it in my own climbing the ladder journey in corporate, beating myself up and pushing myself way past capacity in many ways, and then deciding this is not sustainable and this is not okay and starting to build self-empathy, making decisions that were for me, that weren't necessarily empathetic to others' needs. It made it harder for others. My husband had to stay at home with a two-year-old while I went away to a retreat because I just needed to take time out for myself and that self-care and recalibration for me. So I really appreciate that term decision that you use there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good husband, he's great.
Speaker 1:Yes, he's also not around right now, so I can record in peace. There's also that. So thanking him and his energy, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's us. You know that. Be grateful for everything. That's a beautiful thing that he was, that he gave you a beautiful gift. But for everybody who is climbing up the ladder is beating themselves up.
Speaker 2:I have a spiritual teacher who's a Taoist and he says that when you beat yourself up a little bit less each day, you're making spiritual progress. So you know, don't have these gigantic expectations that once you want to practice self-empathy, if you haven't done it before, that you're going to be this. You know all-star who can do it perfectly. The thing about the spiritual path and developing empathy is that it's a path and it has rocks on it, it has dirt on it, it has smooth parts, it has all kinds of parts. It's a path with all kinds of elements on it, and so you want to learn how to deal with all those elements and do it with a lot of love.
Speaker 2:You know you're going through the dark night of the soul and you're hearing us talk about empathy. It is so important that, even if you're feeling miserable, to try and say nice things to yourself and take yourself out. Look out of the window, you know. Look up at the stars, you know. Do what you can during that dark night to grab on to what's meaningful and heart-centered. You know, that's where empathy comes in, because sometimes what makes the dark night of the soul periods worse is what we do to ourselves. You know, beat, beat, beat. And so one shift that you could make, even if your life is falling apart and you, you know, some people may go through those periods I have a friend going through that where everything that can go wrong seems to be going wrong. It's just sometimes a phase in certain people's life that can teach you about empathy and surrender. So there are lessons in everything. I'm not saying that your life won't be difficult at times, but what I am saying is that empathy will make it a lot easier, Definitely yes, but what I am saying?
Speaker 1:that empathy will make it a lot easier. Yes, yes, it blunts that intensity and deepens and strengthens that muscle of empathy, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's like crawling in the dark, but seeing the light out there. And the more you can put your hand on your heart, the closer the light becomes, you see. But if you don't put your hand on the heart, the closer the light becomes, you see. But if you don't put your hand on the heart, the crawl is going to be harder. So the hand on the heart will help everything. And the hand on the heart is another way to describe empathy, an energetic way to describe empathy of what you do, because it's so important to have that attitude in your life and that's why, with the genius of empathy, I wanted to present people with practical skills on how to use empathy for healing, for yourself, for your relationships, for the world. How can we decrease polarization? How could we come together as human beings and begin to get along? I mean, we can't get along. We can't Very basic things that children in the sandbox. You know. We can't get along, and so empathy can help you. You know a little bit to get along with someone by just listening. Learning to listen to people that you don't agree with. This is a basic life skill. I would suggest that everybody you know every day at least talk to somebody you don't agree with. Don't just have people you agree with around you and people who say yes to you and won't tell you the truth about things. You know it's fine to agree with you, but you have to learn to work with everything on this earth and there are people with all kinds of crazy attitudes that you don't want to have anything to do with. But you can still. You know I hear what you're saying and I appreciate it and I'll give it some thought, as opposed to fighting them. You see, when you get into the warring energy and the fighting energy, it just self-perpetuates. You know it gets worse and worse and worse. But if you try to lift yourself up a little bit, you know, with empathy and you could look at them like that, you can hold your center. That's important when you're being empathic is to hold your center when you're listening to somebody who you just think is, you know, off the wall, you know, or that you don't agree with, but that's the challenge you know, to be able to hold your center there and to say I hear what you're saying, I'll give us some thought, thank you, and to leave it at that. You see, empaths go overboard because they want to explain, they want to heal, they want to bring you two together and when you know all this effort, which isn't worth it, not in those situations. But you can show respect. So all the empaths out there, sometimes, with empathy is doing less is more. You don't have to try and convince anybody of anything. It's more your countenance, how you carry yourself and how your voice is.
Speaker 2:I talk about empathic communication. How's your tone of voice when you talk to somebody? That's key because the tone of voice is energy. You could be snippy or you could be, you know, centered. You know. But if you're centered and you're actually giving off love, at those moments of of saying you know, I, I, you know, I appreciate what you have to say and I'll give it some thought, you know there's a part of you that's giving off love and there's part of you that's going, oh, this guy. You know that, you know.
Speaker 2:But just realize that we can have all these things going on at once. You know you don't have to emotionally bypass your feelings. I can't stand this person, but you don't want to come from that place. When you're communicating, you know, in an empathic way. So I hope you can all grasp that, that we don't have to be just one thing with empathy. So I hope you can all grasp that, that we don't have to be just one thing with empathy. You're not denying your base feelings that you know probably a lot of people would share, but you're choosing to come from a different place because you want to shift the energy. If you don't shift the energy, who's going to do it? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and I want to keep continuing this conversation to take us all the way into boundaries as well, because that's something that you talk about in the book, too. How do you relate to another, empathize with another while also holding boundaries is such a key point, and I'm going to pause this so that we can demonstrate some self-empathy and maybe the listeners can put their hand on their heart and connect to themselves. As we take a water break and take a sip here, I noticed myself wanting to, and we have to keep going, and I said you know what let's model, recognizing our needs as we keep talking. So that's me working on my people pleaser parts, which is back to the topic of boundaries. So could you share more about how you really see people, especially those who are energetically sensitive, working with boundaries to really better relate to everyone around them?
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, if you want to develop empathy, boundaries are a must. You can't get away with not doing it. So you have to decide whether you want to develop your empathy and not everybody does, and that's OK, you know, it's fine but if you do, you have to learn how to set boundaries so that you're not overwhelmed by all the intense energies of the world, because they're really intense out there. If you're sensitive and you go out in the world, you're going to be bombarded with all kinds of things, just because that's the nature of being so open and sensitive. But at the same time, you know one thing I stress in the book is that you do not want to absorb the energy of others. Now, you want to observe. Not absorb is one of the principles that you have to practice.
Speaker 2:Observe people I can walk down the street, I observe people, but I don't jump into them and tune into them. And what are they feeling and are they? Observe people, but I don't jump into them and tune into them. And what are they feeling and are they suffering? And they don't look good, and you know.
Speaker 2:yes, I want your voice in the background as I'm walking through busy airport, reminding me of this exactly we could use each other's voices to remind each other of this, because it's, you know, if you're an empath, that's what we do. You know, naturally we jump into other people, we find out what's going on and we want to help them. You know, and you know, as I wrote in here, I, as an empath, I would love to help everybody. You know I'd love to help you. I'd love to help all your audience. I'd love to help everyone. I know I'd love to help all your audience. I'd love to help everyone. I know I'd love to help the world. I'd love to heal the world. I'd love it, but that isn't how it works.
Speaker 2:We're here on a planet where everybody has to do their part in their healing path. Otherwise they won't achieve it because you can't do it for them. You know I'm sorry, you know it's, I know it's horrible for mothers and fathers who have children who are, you know, let's say, a drug addicts, alcoholics or suffering, and you can make them get sober. You know you can't them, but you can show empathy, you know, for the suffering of their path. You know, instead of putting them down, it's a very different thing You're more likely to get what you actually want, doing it that way, even though it's a different way, and so it's important to you know, have empathy for other people, but set the boundaries, and the boundaries you set in a very positive way. You don't have to be stern, you don't have to be sugar, sugar, sweet, you know you don't have to do any of that. What you have to do is have master your tone of voice when you do it, to just have a very calm, kind tone of voice. All right, but not too much. Empaths tend to overdo and give too much heart. Oh, let me try and understand. You don't do that.
Speaker 2:If you want to set boundary, you want to say no in a very polite and nice way. You know, let's say, a friend simple example, you know wants to go out and you know, go out to dinner and go to a crowded place, overwhelmed. Today you had so much coming in at work and you had so much to deal with that you just would rather stay home and take a bath, you know, and replenish your energy, and so a boundary would be a positive no would be. Oh, I would love to go out with you another time, but I'm just so tired tonight, you know, please forgive me, I'm gonna stay home and just try and get myself together. You know, you say it that way. You know you don't say it stern. The stern approach is not going to work. The nasty approach won't work. The kind and but but firm. And they said oh, I'm so disappointed, I really want you to go out with me, you know and I said I know you know I want to go out with you, you know.
Speaker 2:And I said I know, you know I I want to go out with you too, but I don't have it in me tonight. But we can do it another time, you know, and just stick with that. But if you notice the short amount of time, I said it, you don't get into a being conversation with boundaries, that's boundary one. Yes, yes, you don't. You just say what you're going to say and get out of there.
Speaker 1:With love, you'll get into trouble if you try and get into it boundaryless over time and started to recognize how important it is to conserve energy and fill my cup and then be able to fill other people's cups and extra emphasize as I became a parent. I'm remembering in the last week at some point, my husband, who's moving through a lot in terms of, like, career decision making and moving up the ladder, if you will, in his own way, and comes to me at night wanting to talk and at some point I cut him off and said I would like to go to bed and like I don't have capacity right now to keep going. And I was clear and I just said a max of two sentences, paraphrased right now, and I could tell like oh, he didn't take it well, he was like oh, but we don't get to talk in the night, we're so busy. This is the only time. And it stung and I had to be with that for a bit, but that didn't change my decision.
Speaker 1:I think a previous version of me would have just conceded like well, we can talk just a little bit more, or felt really guilty, maybe shamed myself and it hurt and I really wanted to help him and talk with him.
Speaker 1:But I also recognized my own needs in the moment and said no, and that's something I want to share with the audience too, as there are ways to state these boundaries and it can come from love and to also trust that you have capacity for holding space for the other person's emotional response without again going in to fulfill or take care of a need there. And I think, like you said, it's a journey and we're all journeying on our path towards embracing more empathy towards ourselves and towards others. I also want to touch on you have a whole chapter dedicated to those who you term have an empathy deficient disorder, like narcissists, sociopaths and more. I'd love to touch on that because definitely in our world of empaths who listen to this podcast, we do come across them and everyone's in a different place in their journey with how to navigate such people and their energy.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's a chapter on sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists. And these are people who have empathy deficient disorder and what that means literally is what it says they don't have empathy as we know it. They're not wired neurologically like you are or like an empath is, or like a regular person with empathy. Who's not an empath. They're wired to have empathy. It's just how we're made. But these other people, they're not wired, it's just they don't have it. And this is so hard for the empaths to get, as they often think that if I just love them, if I just listen to them, if I just help them heal, then they're going to be a loving, empathic person and see, this is where empaths go wrong. That's why I wanted to have a whole chapter on this. So read, you know, what some of the indicators of if you're with a narcissist, you know, do they love, bomb you, you know. Do they, you know, need compliments? Are they self-absorbed, you know? Do they, you know, lack an interest in you, unless it has to do with feeding them, you know, in some way? So these are all things to look for and to beware of excessively seductive people, because regular people and I say that in the best way don't turn on the super seduction all the time, especially when they first meet you. That isn't how they interact usually. I mean, sometimes you can have a seductive person who's not a narcissist, but a lot of the time they are narcissists because that's what they want to do. They want to reel you in, they want to make you feel special, they want to love you and send out love vibes and say all the things that you want to hear. You know, oh, you're going to be so great in this job. This job is, you know, going to be amazing for you. You know, or you know, maybe it's a soulmate. You know, oh, my heart's opening. I feel like I've known this person before. You know, because of this intense energy they give off. It's not empathy, by the way. It's a false kind of empathy. It can seem like empathy, it can sound like empathy, but when it's mixed with that seduction, it's very kind of confusing. But when it's mixed with that seduction, I would be very cautious and go slow and not have all your dreams come true. And this person who's super seductive. So I go into.
Speaker 2:You know how to recognize these people and how do you want to have empathy with these people? You know, that's a question I always get asked and for me, you know the way I define empathy. I try to have empathy for everybody, but that doesn't mean agreeing with them and it doesn't. What it means is that I can have empathy for their incredible wounding of not having a heart, so they can't give empathy. So I have empathy for their suffering. I don't have empathy for, you know, their acts where they've hurt people. I don't have empathy for that.
Speaker 2:But to find something you can have empathy for, the reason you want to do that is number one is shift the energy. And number two is to have them not clinging on to your energy field because you're, you know, full of need and you're wanting them and you're wondering where they are, why they're not calling, and you know why we made a connection. All that you know. You don't. You know that's the world of the narcissist. But you can recognize it pretty quickly in yourself and that's why I wrote the chapter to help you recognize it. And you know the question always comes up can you be attracted to people who don't give off that intense vibe? You know, and if not, then you know the question always comes up can you be attracted to people who don't give off that intense vibe, you know, and if not, then you know you could do some.
Speaker 1:The book where you pull out exercises, you pull out ways to recognize the traits of these people, Like there are all these call out boxes that I think really make, uh, all the material very practical and applicable in our day-to-day lives.
Speaker 1:So I saw that in that chapter and many more, all the notes that you mentioned throughout here. I highly recommend people get the copy of the book so that they can digest it in more detail. I also wanted to add on to all that you described about narcissism and more where I've had to also recognize and I so appreciate you speaking to this in the book the more overt form of narcissism as well as the covert form, because that took me much longer to recognize those traits in family members and where it almost feels like they're coming in to help and serve in some way. But it's actually very self-serving and to notice that and notice how the energy dynamic was wonky, it wasn't really helping me and draining me, if anything, in many ways and to then be much more stricter about boundaries and you have so many more tips in the book about how to navigate their energy. So I don't think we can cover it all here, but I wanted to highlight that too, that there's more to learn, and definitely go to the book for all of that.
Speaker 2:Thank you. And you can also gain a mastery over this, because they all do the same thing, I mean, but they're overt and covert, a little bit different in terms of how they present themselves. But you can learn how to master this, because they all present in very similar ways. So if you've seen one, you've essentially seen them all. If you can notice what happens to your body's energy when you meet them, if suddenly all your dreams come true. I met my soulmate, you know, and you know that that kind of reaction to a boss or anybody else, that's something to watch in yourself. It's one thing to have an intuition that this feels right. You know this feels familiar. This feels right, this feels good, as opposed to the over the top razzle dazzle of the narcissist. It's a different expression of what you want to go towards. You want to go towards. This feels good in my gut. This is exciting. I'm connecting, it's like what I've been looking for, but that's how it feels. It's how it feels, so don't get caught by that.
Speaker 2:I've worked with patients for a long time on this and sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. And if they don't, I could guarantee you the path if you take this path romantically or work wise or anything else, it will be a painful path. It will be a very painful path for you, you know so. Narcissist only brings, you know, pain and not not love. Love, right, um, and so you. You just want to be aware of that. Whatever path you take, you want to learn from. But I'm trying to tell you you know a way to avoid that pain. And sometimes you know my patients have needed to go down the path of the narcissist and you know I've stayed with them through. You know, when a dark night of the soul and then you have children with them and then you can't, it's much harder to get out. So you know I've worked with people and decades later, crawling out, they're ready to get out, you know, and it can take a long time to get out of the energy field of a narcissist. So you can't avoid them, definitely lower your expectations around them because of the lack of heart.
Speaker 2:You have to consider who you're dealing with here. If they don't have a heart, you know it's, and these are malignant narcissists, these are full blown narcissists. I just want to clarify these are not people with narcissistic traits. Sometimes people just have self-absorption, you know, or you know me, me, me and you know they have to learn how to communicate differently and there's a little hope with that. There's a little hope because they could go into therapy and they could begin to change themselves, Whereas the full-blown narcissist goes into therapy and I don't do therapy with full-blown narcissists and they say it's your fault, I'm not, I'm here, I'm fine. It's her fault, it's his fault. You know you can't get beyond that.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, I mean recognizing all of this, I think, is like the toolbox that every empath needs, and I think that's what you lay out, which is so helpful and I wanted to then get to, especially as we're coming to the close of our time here, as you close this book. You talk about leadership and empathic leadership, and I would love to hear, based on that whole section of the book, based on all your thinking and reflecting, what is your vision for our world, for the future, where we're much more empathic and educated on the superpower that we can all tap into, we amplify it, we own it, we don't run away from it. I'd love to hear you paint that picture. I'm sure you've contemplated it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean I have a chapter on empathic leadership, because I see that as a future of where we're heading and we need to stay really pure and set our intentions for that, as you could be an empathic leader with a team, and what that means is that you ask your team their opinions. You know what's important to them, what do they want to contribute. You're not the authority figures, it just simply tells them what to do. It's more of a group effort and a communion of hearts, and then you can get really powerful in your team and you can create all kinds of innovative things. But in the old pattern where you're just being told what to do by a boss, that's very limiting in terms of what you can create together. Plus, it's not fun for the employees at all, so they just can't wait to go home and you don't want that.
Speaker 2:You want to have an environment where it feels good to be at work, and what does that is empathy If you feel listened to, if you feel valued. That doesn't mean I always have to agree with you, but it means I listen and my eyes are looking at you. I'm not looking at my phone, you know. I'm looking at you when you're speaking and you're giving people that respect and I see that as our future, hopefully in in government and certainly in healthcare and wherever you have a group that comes together the sacred circle of a team, a group you want to have empathy and you want to have intuition and you want to come together. You might not like everyone on your team, but you can show respect for them.
Speaker 1:Yes, that part, that whole section, really spoke to me, especially putting my corporate leader hat and having been in places and times where we have to do hard things, we have to meet deadlines and timelines that are almost unrealistic, and I know the difference when I've worked within a team where everyone has empathy and understanding and we are working to help each other and we talk about it openly, versus it feels much more directed at us and there's no space or room to decide together how do we make this work, why is this happening?
Speaker 1:And it just feels like we have to be in this box and operate, which we've done for far too long. And I love how you're making this a movement, even within, especially healthcare. That deeply speaks to me, as someone who's worked in the healthcare space for a long time, that we can see this. You know, physicians and more don't have to be cut off from their intuition, from their empathy, just because they have to clinically meet all the guidelines and protocols and, you know, make sure these outcomes are met. There is room for empathy in that equation as well.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, and I supervise residents from psychiatric residents from UCLA on how to bring empathy and intuition into their patient care, and so it's part of their education and I think that's so wonderful. Residents from UCLA on how to bring empathy and intuition into their patient care, and so it's part of their education and I think that's so wonderful and they take that with them after they graduate.
Speaker 1:Well, you are like changing the world as we speak. Dr Olive, I'm so glad that you've been able to bring this book to the world. I'm recommending everyone who's listening please get a copy so that you can learn more and educate yourself more and equip yourself as an empath Like recognize these traits within yourself and recognize how can you bring that energy in a healthy way to others as well. I'd love to close our time with a very powerful way. You close the book, which is a prayer for the world. I love the words and the energy of that and I'm inviting our audience, viewers, listeners, to feel into this prayer with us all, because I think we can amplify the intention of what you wrote in the book.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is the end of the book the Genius of Empathy A Prayer for the World. I pray for the suffering to be lifted from those who are sick, in pain or oppressed. I pray for the suffering to be lifted from all oppressors so they can learn to love. I pray for the health of the planet and her ecosystems. I pray for the healing of each person's heart. I pray for those who can't ask for help or who feel lost. I pray for the good of the world. I pray that all the underdogs will overcome obstacles and be successful. I pray that you and I are happy and healthy. I pray for empathy when I can't find it. I am grateful for empathy when it comes. May we all show mercy to each other and come together in love.
Speaker 1:I'm just inviting everyone to take a deep breath and receive those words, feel into it all and, if it feels good to you, amplify the intention and energy of it for all of the world to receive. Thank you, dr Orloff. It was a wonderful conversation. I learned so much and such good reminders of things I can bring into my life and for our audience as well.
Speaker 2:You're very welcome.